Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to following the Gone, a podcast for Schreier Scholars, bringing you mentoring on demand from scholar alumni. I'm your host, Shawn Goheen and our guest today, joining us virtually from the Garden State over in New Jersey is healthcare and science communications executive Jennifer Jpegs Paganelli, class of 2002. Jennifer, welcome.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me, Sean. I am thrilled to be here and really look forward to our conversation.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: I'm looking forward to it too. You are clearly in the spirit with your football jersey there on brand. Would expect nothing less from a communications professional like yourself. And so Jennifer, sorry, I know you asked JPEGs, you are the president of Earned media Relations at Real Chemistry. So. So in realspeak, what does that mean?
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Okay, in realspeak, what the heck do I do? That means that I don't develop medicines. I'm not a researcher or a scientist. But me and my colleagues job is to educate people about advances in science, in medicine and access to health information in a way that they can digest it, connect with it and hopefully take action on it. It's a very exciting field, one I wasn't really tracking on when I was in college quite frankly. But it's really rewarding and it really makes a difference in real people's lives because we can all, we all have our health, right? We all can relate to that in some way, whether we're living with a medical condition ourselves or you know, a loved one, etc. So it's a really meaningful field and my job as almost a translator of medical advances and news to lay audiences is really something I take great pride in. It's very important and that's the high level.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to diving into that. But first, maybe the thing that you can translate for us to start is how did the nickname come about to the point that you list that on your preferred informal name on the conver on the questionnaire that I give you for this conversation. And you know, you even have it like listed professionally on your like LinkedIn and stuff.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: I do. It's pretty wild. I work at a company now where there are a lot of Jennifers. So when I started my, my current role here about nine years ago, they said gosh, there's too many Jennifers on this one email. You gotta, gotta use a nickname. I said, oh, I've got one. Jennifer. Jpegs. That's what they called me when I was in high school playing softball. That was my nickname. My last name is Paganelli. JPEGs. That's that I was a pitcher. And so yeah, Pags taking the mound. That's it. And even my license plate, I have a Penn State alumni license plate that I am very proud of and it has the Nittany lion head and JPEGs. So when I introduce myself on meetings, I cite, truly call me jpegs. Everyone does accept my children, so feel free to call me that. And it's very memorable. People seem to remember me, so we'll stick with it.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: Hey, it's all about that personal brand, right?
[00:03:21] Speaker A: That's it. That's it.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: So friend of the college and past guest Ken Graham always likes to ask, where were you living on your 16th birthday when you were in high school? As a softball pitcher. And I'll add, as a child growing up, what was your ideal grown up job?
[00:03:37] Speaker A: Oh, man. Well, When I was 16, I was living in East Hanover, New Jersey. That's my hometown. It is the home of Novartis today, a major pharmaceutical company, which is, maybe that meant something, who knows? At the time it was Sandoz, lots of great pizzerias. And gosh, at the time of 16, I was getting excited for my driver's license. I was playing sports. I was all in on that and just enjoying my friends. I'm an only child, so I was just hanging with my friends all the time and just having a grand old time. And college wasn't even on my radar screen. I knew from my parents and my upbringing that college was going to be in my horizon at some point, but it wasn't really on my mind. I was just focused on having a good time and getting as much softball in as humanly possible.
And then that's how it all started.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: So when college was on the horizon and you did begin your search, how did you end up here at Penn State?
[00:04:39] Speaker A: It's funny again, growing up, my father was a high school biology teacher. My mother was a government affairs executive at Nabisco, the home of Oreos. And again, like, we didn't really talk about specific colleges, but I had an English teacher in high school named Mrs. Barbara Wiggins. Phenomenal human. And she suggested it to me. She said, jen. She didn't call me jpegs. She said, jen, you know, I really think as you explore different colleges, you should put Penn State on your list. I think you'd be a great fit. I think you would enjoy the size of it and all the opportunities. So why don't you think about it? I said, okay, well, I'm going to see colleges anyway. I might as well add it So I had checked out. We road tripped to see the University of Delaware. I didn't even get out of the car. I said, nope, this is not for me. We went to the University of Maryland. I pet the terrapin or whatever it was, the turtle. And I was like, yes, it's all right. But then when I got on the campus of Penn State, I said, this is it. I said, I want the full college experience. I want a big school. I want to be far enough away where my parents can't just show up on my doorstep, but I want a lot of opportunity. And I felt that the campus and just the vibe brought everything at all of those things. So I said, I think this is the place. This is the place for me.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Well, it certainly was because you, in your own words, as a professional storyteller, I'm going to quote here from your responses to me, studied hard and partied hard and squeezed every last drop out of my college experience, including a fabulous study abroad semester in London. So can you give us some insight on your Penn State experience?
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Oh man, I really enjoyed every minute at Penn State. I, I was not part of a sorority because I didn't want to limit myself. I said, I want to make friends with everyone. I want to go and do whatever I want. So I was, I was an independent and I quickly found some like minded friends along the way who I'm still, still very close with. And I just really, I took my studies seriously. I think that's being the daughter of a, of a, an educator. But I really tried to just experience as much as I could with the social aspect of the, of school as well. Meeting new people, going to all the parties, going to concerts at the Bryce Jordan or Recall and certainly the football games. And that's what I did. I mean, I did not. I worked during the summers when I came home in New Jersey, I was a waitress. So that's how I made some spending money for school. So I didn't have to work during the school year, luckily. But I really did view myself as like, you know, I had to be like a professional learner and get good grades. But I also wanted to be well rounded from the social aspect as well. So I, I think I had a pretty good balance.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Well, clearly you did because you got into the college as a rising sophomore junior. And can you talk about what inspired you to make that decision? And then also, you know, how you picked your area of study on top of that?
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Sure. It's funny, I found my letter. I found my letter. I had it in My. In a shoebox. The letter inviting me to be part of the Schreier Honors College. Yeah, like you said, I was. Yeah, I was just a regular undergrad and I did get good grades. So when I think it was around sophomore, junior year, I got the letter inviting me to consider being part of the. The Honors College. And I didn't even know what that was all about. I said, oh, well, I'm not really. I. I kind of had a different perspective of that. I said, oh, well, that might be a little dorky. That might be a little too intense for me. You know, I'm kind of. I've got a good thing going here. But what really appealed to me was the idea of writing a thesis. I thought that was like a really big, cool challenge. And also the idea of study abroad, that was something that was of interest to me. And I said, huh, if this could help me maybe get there, let's do it. What's. What do I have to lose? And I had a couple of amazing professors who really encouraged me. Dr. Steven Brown, he was a speech communications. I think he's still there. Speech communications professor. And that's what I did. I mean, I started my undergrad as a PR advertising major because I thought that's what I wanted to do, and that's what I do today, basically. But I was a little bored by it. I was bored by, you know, the curriculum wasn't, like, super exciting to me. We were learning about P.T. barnum and stuff, and I was like, all right, I think. I think maybe I could go a different direction. And I was really interested in language, in rhetoric, in that type of study. In fact, when in high school, I competed in something called declamation, which is when you recite famous speeches. And I was the New Jersey State champ. No big deal. So, anyway, I think that was part of my interest in speech communication. And so when I did transition to the Schreyer College, that became my focus area. Area. And I was really pleased by it, but a little. It was a little daunting. It was a little daunting, but it was. It was a great experience.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: And so you go through, you know, you're trying to make the absolute most out of your experience.
What strategies did you find helpful for balancing, as you said, kind of squeezing everything out of your experience? And are there any that you've learned since that you think would have been helpful for you that you can recommend to current scholars who similarly want to make the most of being at Penn State, but also in the Honors College and getting the academic rigor of being a scholar for sure.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Looking back, I was very good at compartmentalizing my time. Time management was one of my strengths. It still kind of is. I was able to say okay, on these nights of the week I am going to singularly focus on the research for the thesis and on these other days of the week I'm going to focus on studies related to my general coursework. So I think that ability to kind of compartmentalize it and work around the hot of going out was very important. And I, I knew I was like okay, I'm gonna work hard for the next three hours because at 9pm I want to go to Cafe210 and and have some fun. So that was kind of a motivator for me. The going out part helped me stay a little focused and I really took advantage of the office hours that Dr. Brown, my thesis advisor offered to talk through challenges and to kind of get ahead of stuff. I mean I wasn't a professional writer. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. Heck, my thesis was about reality television of all things, the ethicality of reality because that had just come on the scene, those types of shows. So I took advantage of those office hours. Very important and you know, I wouldn't do anything differently. I think everyone's an individual and you, by the time you're in college you kind of know what works for you and what doesn't. Right. You do a little trial and error.
But what I didn't do was immerse myself a thousand percent in the honors stuff. I mean I really tried to maintain a balance and you know, not just get completely sucked into it. And I think that was great. That worked for me. That was, that was my approach. And I'm sure there's others that work as well.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Absolutely. We take great pride in. We are part of Penn State. Right. So making the most of things like football thon going to a favorite establishment. You mentioned Cafe210, one of my favorites as well. Not sponsored in any way. Just happens to be.
I don't know if that brand alignment. Well as we get into into those kind of things but you mentioned your thesis and it was on reality television kind of in the dawn of modern reality television. Can you talk us through that project? But most importantly what impact it's had on your career in terms of the research, writing, etc.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: For sure. I loved pop culture. I still do. Loved magazines, television, mtv, you name it. That was my life growing up. So when I was trying to pick a topic I was really trying to pick something I would be quasi interested in and also that was relevant to the time. So this is how, you know, I'm dating myself, I graduated in O2, but reality television was just starting to emerge as a genre of television. So you know, Big Brother, the Real World, Survivor, those were all really gathering interest and steam. So I said, and it was a, it was just so different from the type of television that had been on. So I thought, gosh, how should I, I think I should dig into this idea of the ethics around reality television and these kind of voyeuristic shows and what impact might this have on individuals? Not to make a, not to say that they're good or bad in any way, but just, huh. This is an interesting emerging area and I think it warrants some discussion and research. So I tackled that topic. I even found my, my, I'm holding up a copy of my actual thesis bound, which I, I keep not close by, but it's, it's, it's, it's in my house.
And I was really, I really enjoyed that, that aspect. And I think what I carried on from that project was not about the topic or anything. It was that we can do hard things.
We can do hard things. I never thought I would write 100 pages about anything, never mind have to do it and cite all of the, the research, etc. It was a very difficult, daunting project in that sense. And it just gave me such confidence. Wow, if I can tackle this, and I didn't even think this wasn't even on my radar screen, I can kind of do anything. So, you know, I think as you, as we start our careers and evolve in our careers, we're always faced with new challenges. And when you are challenged, that's when you have the most growth. If you're comfortable and you're just coasting, that might be fun. But, but you're not really, you're not really moving forward. So that gave me a lot of confidence. It was a little less about the research itself and more about the, the process, you know.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Absolutely. And to date myself a little bit, Jersey Shore was the big one during college for me.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: Jersey Shore? What? Right. That wasn't even out yet. Gosh, I probably could have been on it. I know some people that were. But, but yeah, yeah, it really was crazy to see how it exploded and took on and how those people became influencers before the word influencer was even a thing. So when I look back, it's pretty exciting to. And funny, you know, that that's What I picked up on, Well, I think.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: You were ahead of the curve on looking at some of the modern media trends there.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Perhaps. Perhaps I was.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: But obviously you had to turn your attention to finding a job after you graduated.
So first, how did you go about finding your first job? And then as somebody who has hiring responsibilities now, what advice would you give to current scholars based on your experience both then and now as a team leader?
[00:15:41] Speaker A: I spent a lot of time when I graduated going on informational meetings with people who were executives at different types of organizations, in communications firms and at pharmaceutical companies, because that's what was close to me in East Hanover.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: I told you about Novartis, for example. So I was very lucky in that my mother was connected to a few folks in that space. She didn't get me a job, but she said, you know, I think you should go talk to Brandy Robinson, who leads advocacy relations at Novartis at the time. Go, go see if she'll talk to you for an hour. Bring your resume, see what she suggests. So ironically, Brandi is now a, an executive at Merck and we work together, which is crazy, but she was the one that told me, listen, if you like communications, if you want a varied experience and you want to learn a lot in a short amount of time, working for a public relations agency might be the way to go, because you're going to be able to work at a company that maybe specializes in a few areas, consumer goods, financials, health care, etc. And you can figure out what area you like the most and get, get exposure to all of that. So after talking to a few other folks, they all kind of said the same thing. I said, I think agency is going to be my pace. It's faster, I'll learn more.
So she connected me as someone else at Ogilvy Public Relations. Again, I went in as an informational meeting. I didn't, I didn't go in. There was no job opening. But at the end of that meeting, they said, huh, an entry level person just quit. Would you like to take an entry level job in our healthcare practice on Monday? I said, oh. I was like, I didn't, I said, of course. That sounds terrific. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, what the heck is healthcare communications? I had never even heard of it, but it was at an agency and in New York. And I said, well, let me just go for it because I need a job. And also, if I don't like this area, maybe there's another area that I can, I can sneak into. But this would get my Foot in the door. So that's what I did. So the idea of networking and doing the informational interviews I just thought was so valuable. And the key is to maintain those networks. I maintain contact with those folks forever still today. And now we're colleagues. So that's, I think the, the generation now and current students. You are so highly networked. You were born, you were born in digital.
To the extent that you can maintain those relationships, cultivate them, check in with people and that is going to serve you so well your entire career because you will learn technical skills no matter what your job is. Right? Okay. You're going to learn the skills. I learned the skills of media relations, I learned, I learned that. But, but the connection, the relationships, no matter what is happening with AI, etc. Etc. And that's exciting. The relationships matter more than ever. And all you have is your reputation and what people say about you when you're not in the room. And to the degree you can forge and cultivate relationships throughout your career and life, it will serve you well.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: That is really good insight there. JPEGs.
Now you're in that first role. You're at a media agency, PR agency. Can you walk us through like day in the life, that first job, what you learned and what scholars could expect and just trying to generally in those early 22, 23 year old communications media roles.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Oh man. Well, we didn't have, we didn't have any iPhones or anything so we were, the only computers we had were at. In the office. So my job in those early days and just to like give you some perspective what was going on in health care at the time. Levitra was just approved for erectile dysfunction. Okay, that seems like eons ago, but it was just approved by the fda. It was like so exciting. And my job was to go into the office very early. I think I had to get there at 6:30am and monitor the news from the day and night before in the morning and type up reports about news coverage of Levitra, of that space, of the company, etc, and send out a report to all of the senior executives at that company and on that product brand team. So it was in my mind like the most important thing to do. It was very stressful and you had no sense of what the news was until you got to the office.
Right. Like now you're tracking, you're tracking news all day, all night, whatever, 24 hour news cycle. But then you didn't. So it was, you know, it was a grind, it was, it was a lot of pressure But I enjoyed it. I said, oh, gosh, what I'm doing is important. People are reading this and making important decisions based on it.
So this is cool. But then I got the chance to do some media relations for a different type of medicine. And they said, okay, Pags, here's a media list of all these reporters at different news outlets. Here are their phone numbers, because that's when we would call them then. And we want you to call them all and tell them that this about this new medicine. And that was the start of my love for media relations. Cold calling someone such a hard thing. Gosh, hey, did you hear about this news? I think your readers are going to want to know about it. Would you like to interview someone? So once I got a taste for that and saw the coverage that resulted immediately from those conversations, I said, oh, I'm hooked. This is, this is what I need to be doing. Because I liked that kind of instant gratification of seeing the results of my work versus it, just going out into the ether and you didn't know what would, what would happen from it. So that was really exciting.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: So, JPEGs, you're enjoying that role.
And I noticed on your LinkedIn that the least amount of time that you've been at a company is at least three years. And it's usually been more suggesting that you've been around to build up relationships, networks, you know, institutional knowledge, everything you were talking about in the previous question. That can be really hard to leave sometimes.
How did you know it was time to move on either laterally or up?
[00:21:57] Speaker A: I learned when I made my. I've been so lucky in my career. I've worked at some phenomenal organizations and I have learned so much from the mentors I had there, managers, peers, et cetera, et cetera. So no regrets on anywhere I've been. I got as much out of it as I could, but I always knew it was time to move on. When I felt bored, when I felt like it was Groundhog Day, that that happened a couple times where I said, gosh, I really don't think I'm learning anything new. I'm kind of doing the same stuff every day. And now it's every year, you know, I want to try something different or I want to just try to another organization that maybe has a different type of focus. So. And with different types of people who are maybe, you know, on the cutting edge of some emerging areas like analytics, research, AI Now, I always wanted to be in the mix and I wanted to be marketable because that's key to anyone's career journey. You need to keep upskilling constantly to stay relevant. So I said, gosh, how relevant am I really staying at this? Maybe one organization? I think I should take a chance on myself. I've got a lot got out what I, what I could out of this. And I gave my best effort. Let's try it somewhere else because maybe then I can take on a little bit more responsibility and so on and so on. So that's always been my, my, my barometer, you know, on my board and, and I. Am I learning anything?
[00:23:19] Speaker B: So one of the things that you did have to learn, you talked about was this idea of the media relations and you gave a little bit of like kind of the 50,000 foot view, but like, what exactly is that? What is earned media? If you could just kind of talk about the different jobs that you've had and the skills that you've developed in each of those. Walk us through that for, especially for those of us who maybe aren't in a PR type of major or role.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's really fun. I mean, it's really relationship built. So while I may have moved from different organizations, I always stayed in health care and I became uber specialized public relations and communications at the top, then healthcare, then a healthcare media relations expert. And that's kind of where I decided to focus. But it's based on long standing relationships with reporters and real humans who are covering the news.
So that's really fun to me. I love going out to meet with editors and reporters at the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or podcasts to understand what are they covering, what do they find of interest? Where could I be helpful on behalf of my clients? I loved that aspect of it. And again, that's social, right. And that takes time. You don't just build relationships in one year. So, you know, right now, for example, let's take last night. Last night I went out to dinner with the CEO of a podcast company and we were talking about new podcasts he's launching, how we can help maybe connect him to some of my clients who have very distinct perspectives on different areas of health. You know, access to medicines, using AI to help discover drugs faster, et cetera. So I just love that human aspect of the job. And that's something that's been very, very consistent. But, you know, now I'm learning about things like AI. How can we use AI as communicators? How can we. To compliment what we're doing won't replace my job because it's still, it just makes it more important for me to forge these relationships with reporters, editors at different outlets. So when you're scrolling your phone in the morning or you're on Instagram, whatever, you know, a lot of that content may be generated or informed by work me and my team are doing. We're not just dealing with traditional reporters either. We're dealing with influencers. Right? Maybe. And influencers, not just the Kim Kardashians, I don't do that. But physicians who are online and really using social channels to get out important information about medical conditions or answer questions from the community. We're working with them too. So that's exciting because my job is to make sure that news is getting to the our end audience, whether it's a patient, a doctor, a care partner in a channel where they're already living their lives.
Some people are watching local news, some people are reading a newspaper online, whatever. Some are getting their news only on TikTok. I need to know that. And we and my team, we need to make sure that we're helping our clients who tend to be a little bit more conservative. It's the pharmaceutical industry, so there's a lot of regulation, but break through in a meaningful way to get this potentially life saving information about new medicines, new approaches, support to those people on the right channel. So it's really evolved and, but the relationships aspect, the partnership aspect has not, has not changed at all.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: So JPEGs, a lot of the things that you're talking about, whether it's like a new drug or a therapy or new technologies that can influence what research is done, the experience of patients, the physicians and other medical professionals using it, more or less trying to, you can plan that out, you know, how long once this drug is approved, how to start marketing it. But something like Covid that, you know, came out of nowhere basically.
So this could probably be a whole thesis topic for some of our current installers. But in your experience, how did that impact your work in healthcare communications?
[00:27:36] Speaker A: It just underscored how critical communications is to improving the lives of people. I mean, Covid happened, we were all impacted by it. And as a healthcare communicator, we were like, game on. This is what we live for now. Our clients are the ones researching vaccines, Covid treatments and life and death. Things where time matters and we're getting the right information out is even more important because we saw misinformation, you know, proliferate and disinformation and it was all hands on deck. And we really felt that we were in a very privileged spot to be able to work around the clock to help our companies and those scientists who were doing, you know, really the hard, hard work to get that information out a timely way, where we're balancing hope with hype. We didn't want to over promise on things and to make sure the right people were getting it. Because what Covid showed us is, yes, medicine is important. Science will win. It did win, but there are some very real gaps when it comes to health equity, trust in the medical system and the information.
And that was something that I just. It was always there, but. But it came to light even more. And so I was really honored to work with organizations like the Black Coalition against Covid, with Dr. Reid Tuckson, one of the leading physicians, and to really tackle misinformation and help build trust with the black community as it pertained to the vaccines, et cetera, finding the right trustworthy voices to provide information, people they could relate to, et cetera. So it was just a remarkable time. It kind of went by in a blur because we were all in every day. And it was just something I'll look back on and be forever proud. And I hope we, not only as communicators, but as a nation, really take with us some of the very hard lessons learned from that experience. Because, you know, I think the pendulum has swung backwards a little bit. And anyway, it was. We could. We could talk for three hours about COVID but it was. It was. It was quite a time.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: Absolutely, it was.
Now, in a broad sense, you know, you've kind of talked about audience and different, you know, channels that you funnel information through, whether it's traditional media, online influencers, or podcasts. So how do you go about deciding, like, I want to reach this audience, this is how I'm going to talk to them, and this is the channel I'm going to talk to them through. What are your just trying to. You don't need trade secrets, but like, what are your general thought processes on. On deciding these things?
[00:30:31] Speaker A: And it's come. We've come a long way because back in the day when I started, we used to shake a Magic 8 ball and that would tell us what to do. I'm joking, but, you know, we were really using our best. Not far off, but today we have data and analytics that can really help us understand who these potential patients might be.
You know, where they live, what are they into, where are they living their lives? Are they gamers, for example, and they're spending a lot of time on Twitch, etc. Our data and analytics are so phenomenal. And that's why, like, that's why I came to Real Chemistry, because I said, oh, man, that's not something I really know about. And they do it in a compliant way, et cetera. But it's to really understand the patients, their journey to getting a diagnosis, and understanding the conversations they have with doctors, understanding the language they might be using online. You know, we can. We can. We have a lot of linguists on our team that actually they have PhDs in that and then can help us understand. And it all matters because it helps shape not only the channel we might be using to reach someone. Okay, we know people this age group, maybe with this condition or on TikTok, but who's going to resonate with them the most? Who should deliver the message? Should it be someone like them? Should it be a physician? Like that? Should it be an infographic? Should it be a TikTok video? You see, like, and the analytics can really help us. We don't have to guess anymore.
So I'm so lucky to work at Real Chemistry because we have a team. Gosh, we have 2,000 employees and we have 200 people who just focus on analytics. How lucky am I? So again, we get back to networking. I have on my bat phone the numbers of all the people and experts at my company who's really smart at analytics, who's really smart with paid media, who's my value and pricing expert that I can call at any time to get smarter and ultimately to provide the best counsel to the client. Because, fun fact, half of my day is spent telling clients what not to do. They have news. And I might say, you know what? Earned is not the way. A reporter is not going to cover that story. It's an important story for other reasons, right? We got to talk about the science of the medicine, etc. But gosh, you know what would be better, more impactful for your audience to do a really cool, highly visual LinkedIn post.
Because that's where your audience is that you're trying to reach with this message, right? So that's the fun part. And we have so many more tools at our disposal. It used to be we just had a press release and a phone that was pretty lame, but now we've got so many different tools. We've had such a better understanding of our audiences, and it really helps us be more precise in what we're doing and takes the guesswork out of it.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: That is really cool. And so you came at this with a degree in communication arts and Science, speech, communication. You have presumably people with computer science and the data analytics side of things. And then you also mentioned linguists. So what kind of, you know, for. Especially for liberal arts majors or the ones that are less obvious, they're not a PR or AD major, they're not data science.
What should they be doing to work, you know, find roles similar to your, like, you know, on your team where you're employing linguists.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Gosh, it's such a good question. I don't know that I know the answer, except to, you know, maybe follow organizations like mine, bigger companies in a certain space because you oftentimes those companies like real chemistry. We are constantly putting out thought leadership pieces, blog posts. We have our own podcasts where we have different experts across our network talking about different trends. And I always learn something. We have PhDs, medical PhDs that help us understand the nuances of new medicines and new mechanisms of action. You know, it's wild. We have medical illustrators. I didn't even know that was like a thing. And not only are they just drawing medical images, they're using AI to visually create and tell these beautiful scientific stories and patient stories. So it, it's interesting. I don't know if I know exactly how to point people to like learn about all these things, but again, I think that's where informational meetings with someone you do know or something that is close to what you do can really help you open the aperture a little bit and understand a little bit more. And following some organizations that are, that are kind of paving. Paving the way, I learn something every day about smart people that work at my company and yeah, it's pretty awesome.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Well, speaking of learning, the next question I had, and you've kind of answered this as almost thematically embedded through a lot of your other answers, but we continue to take a little bit of a deeper dive. As a scholar, it's no surprise you're a lifelong learner. I think it's kind of ingrained in us.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: It is.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: How do you. You've mentioned some ways, but walk us through your thought process on how you decide to go about learning and especially the technical science and health topics. When you're coming at it from a speech background, not a medical background, and your thesis was on reality television and not the cellular something or other of heart tissue.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: Right, right. How do I go about. You know, I lean on the experts. I lean on the experts and I have actual conversations with them. So. So before I'm pitching anything, for example, I'm going to write to the scientist who's developing these drugs. Hey, what do you think is so cool about this? Put it in your own words, Explain it to me like I'm your grandmother.
Because again, I'm a translator. And it actually works to my advantage that I am not, as, you know, maybe savvy with the nuances of science. I mean, for crying out loud, I took Rocks for Jocks at Penn State. Truly, I don't know what it's really called, but it was Rocks for Jocks. And I did not take, you know, any, any high science courses. So, you know, but that's a good thing. And because at the end of the day, we're trying to reach people like me. We're trying to maybe reach people like my mom.
She's not an expert. So I've got to be able to kind of take what the experts are saying, what they want to convey, and not dumb it down necessarily, but just simplify it, take out the jargon, make it relatable. And in many cases, it's not just the written words that do that, like a press release, maybe you issue about something, or it's the person who's conveying it. So, for example, if I'm living with, you know, a rare disease, I may want to hear information. I want to hear about the experience from another person that's living with this rare disease, someone like me, someone I can relate to. I want to hear from a doctor who's on the front lines of maybe that condition, or an advocacy group that's helping patients. So matching the voice, so getting the words down and the messages critical, but also finding the right voice to convey it. So in that sense, my team and I were real matchmakers. We're matchmakers. We have to understand how do we get this news out, who. Who's best to convey it over what channel, when and how do we amplify it and make sure even more people can see it. So it's just not a one and done thing. So it's a great challenge. I learn every day from human beings. I learn from AI. I learn from having a varied media diet. I don't just read news about the healthcare space. Of course I live in that, but I'm reading other things. I need to know about trends, I need to know about pop culture.
I need to understand, gosh, is there a celebrity that just got diagnosed with something that, you know, I know one of my clients is working on. Can we connect those dots? So you have to kind of be a learner of life and stay curious no matter what field you're in. And you know, I really encourage people too to learn and network beyond just your field. That's important. Right? We have to be well rounded. Go to the museum, go to the movie, go to the party, you know, we. And be receptive because all of that information is, you know, at least as a communicator can be, can be put to good use, I think.
[00:38:50] Speaker B: Well, good thing if you're watching this, you're probably a Schreier scholar and well rounded is kind of our stick here. So.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:38:57] Speaker B: Good advice.
Now, jpegs, you've mentioned a lot of things on kind of the end receiver of the messaging, but we haven't really talked about the client side of this. So coming from a liberal arts background, you're in the position presumably where you're involved in managing these relationships, possibly, you know, maintaining, establishing, severing even. So walk us through the business side of the relationship management with the one, the company's pharmaceuticals doctors that are paying you to help them with their communications.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean we, you know, the healthcare space is kind of a small world. There's a lot of big companies that we've heard of, but there's a ton of smaller biotech companies that maybe they don't have a medicine approved yet. They're developing it right early on.
So there's different flavors. We also work with cancer organizations, hospitals, City of Hope comes to mind, a cancer center. So different advocacy organizations we work with. So, so it does vary. We work with a lot of digital health companies, etc. So how do we build relationships? I mean, listen, you have to just always do great work and you have to anticipate what these clients are going to need to know around the corner. Because I think no matter what kind of company you're at, if you're in house, right, you're the client. You're probably singularly focused day in and day out about what that company is doing. And my job and my team's job is to, to help them zoom out, understand what else is going on in the landscape, trends, what's coming down the pike. They need to be prepared for, et cetera, and to just be useful strategic counselors.
I am successful if my phone is ringing off the hook every day with clients that want my opinion on something. Hey, Pags, what do you think about this idea? I've got a great story. Do you think it's got legs, et cetera? That's how we're helpful and useful, helping them solve their business challenges, not just to get news out for news sake. But helping them get medicines to the right people, et cetera. So, you know, there are times. Yes. Where, where maybe we don't work with a company anymore or maybe a drug fails. Science is hard. Not all medicines make it to get FDA approved. So often that happens too. Now we have to unfortunately part ways. But, but those executives and communicators end up somewhere else. And I hope, and our goal is that they're calling us, they're calling real chemistry, they're calling me to come back in and help them with tackle the new challenge that they're, that they're facing at the new company. So reputation matters. Be adding value in every interaction matters. And being a nice person to work with. This is hard stuff. It's a team sport and sometimes you got to work weekends, roll up your sleeves and you're in it with your colleagues and your clients. Are you someone you want to be in the trenches with?
You know, that's, that's, you know, I wish it was, it was be nice, be funny, be someone you want to throw back a beer with, but also, you know, tackle the hard stuff. So, you know, if we can all. And, and you know, my team and I would do a good job of that, not just with reporters, but with our clients. I hope so. You know, it's not rocket science, but it's, it's pretty important.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: So that begs another question, and you kind of teed me up perfectly here. So you're in a managerial role and you haven't been an individual contributor since early in your career. You've been in a lot of leadership roles. How did you and continue to adjust to being a manager and a leader where you maybe necessarily can't always be the one rolling up your sleeve, but giving the direction, the strategic vision and delegating, even though that's original IC work, is what drew you to your career path. How do you manage that? If I could call it a kind of a mental conflict.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: It's an interesting problem because you're right. Like the more if you move up in your career and you take on more managerial responsibilities as a subject matter expert, that can, that can hurt you because now I'm out of the game. I'm not as connected to the reporters anymore or, you know, the new trends or the new. I'm not pitching the news personally, so it makes building an incredibly talented team more important. I've been very lucky. That's what I've been able to do. I have a team of 60 people who only focus on Healthcare, media relations, day in and day out, both here and across the pond. But I make time every single week to have one on one conversations with the folks that are really in the trenches. I want to know, hey, what are you working on? What's hot? What challenges are you facing? They're keeping me smart. It's almost like a reverse mentorship. I really value the time I get with my junior most colleagues, they're teaching me about AI and about where they're consuming their news and I'm curious about that. So I really rely on my team to keep me smart. I rely on technologies and the like to keep me smart. And you have to trust your team. You have to trust your team. They're very capable. They're phenomenal humans. And we genuinely like each other. There are no egos. It's like, this is healthcare. We're not selling sneakers. We're trying to help people with their lives so there can't be an ego. We're here to help each other out. So when you're surrounded by very smart people who are motivated by the same mission and get up every single day to make the world a healthier place, using maybe more traditional things like earned media, but also innovative kind of newer technologies, that's a recipe for success. And so, you know, yes, I manage people now and spend a lot of my time making those types of decisions and hiring, but I still make the time to learn what they're doing. They keep me honest. And I still make time to meet with reporters and share that intelligence and share trends and all of that with my clients. That keeps me fresh and not out of the game.
[00:45:07] Speaker B: Awesome.
Now, speaking of developing those skills, whether technical, people oriented or otherwise, what should scholars work on developing now, and especially those interested in either STEM careers or communications careers, knowing that most things are learnable other than maybe being a nice person.
[00:45:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you can learn that too if you want to. But yeah, how do you keep learning and getting. Yeah, learn how to work with a team.
Learn how to work with a team. I always, when I interview new college grads, they're always talking about their, you know, college projects and, and gosh, I have to work with all these people. And they might be annoyed by that, but it's like, I get it, but like you are successful in life unless you are a bench scientist. And even then I would argue that you're working with other scientists. You're not going solo. You need to know how to work with people, you need to know how to persuade.
Does not matter what industry I'm in. I need to be able to convince you that my perspective should be considered, that maybe this news article is worth covering because of this reason. You need to learn how to. How to persuade. So, you know, I don't. And I feel like you learn that through observation. In some senses, you. You surround yourself when you're in a job. You're gonna. You're gonna pick up on things quickly, who's. Who's impactful in that way, who can persuade, who is nice, who's effective, who's moving up the ranks, and what are they doing?
And you're gonna, you know, you take the good and the bad. You throw out the bad. Okay, I don't want to be like that. I want to be like this. You try to emulate it a little bit, and you have to get comfortable asking for feedback.
And it doesn't mean, oh, can you give me feedback after this call or after this meeting? That's too general, and that's too much work. It's, hey, I'm trying to work to be more concise and confident. When I present an update on this call, would you keep me honest? You know, Sean, will you tell me after the call how I did, what can I work on? And I find asking for that type of advice and counsel in real time, not waiting for a review, not waiting for something to hit the fan, is so helpful. So, you know, again, it comes back to kind of team dynamics, learning your skills and knowing what you're good at and what you're not, and going in with curiosity and not an ego, because at the end of the day, we all learn from each other and we all pay it forward. And again, you can go to more college and learn technical skills, and that's awesome, and you should, but anyone can do that. If I wanted to, you know, if I really wanted to, I could go back and learn how to be a hairdresser. Maybe I'm joking, but, like, you know, but I can't learn how to collaborate necessarily. You know, no course is going to teach me that or how to be curious. So, anyway, I like listening to a lot of podcasts, different experts that I can take tips from here and there and observe around me who's doing it. Well.
[00:48:09] Speaker B: That is really good insight there. Jpegs.
Now, speaking of podcasts, I have this one, but I am no media communications expert, as much as I might like to think I am at times. So what questions about the topics that we've discussed today should I have thought to ask you? But I didn't or maybe a better way to phrase this. What questions do you get from those junior employees, your mentees, your interns, or even your clients or reporters that would be helpful to discuss here at the back end of our conversation?
[00:48:42] Speaker A: Well, I love that question and I call that the meatball question. I prepare clients to answer just those types of questions at the end of interviews because every reporter worth his salary salt is going to ask that. Did I miss anything? What else would you like to add?
You know, the one thing I wanted to reiterate first off, just thank you for having me. This was a great discussion, I had a great time. I hope that your listeners leave realizing there are so many different career paths you can take. You know, learn what you're good at, learn what you don't like, and try to find a job not necessarily that you love, but that's going to pay you for the things you're good at that energize you, that get you charged up. You know, I was so lucky that I fell into healthcare. I didn't know it was a thing. And I've been in healthcare my entire 20 plus year career. I will never leave. It is meaningful every day. The work might be hard, the clients might be challenging and moody or whatever it is, but at the end of the day, I know in some teeny tiny way what me and my team are doing is going to help someone when they need it the most, when they get an unexpected diagnosis, when they're, you know, now going to Google to find, you know, reputable articles and information about a condition, you know, it matters. So think about that. Think about, you know, the area you want to focus in and how it's going to make you feel as a contributor not just to the world, but, you know, will it, will it sustain a nice career for you, that, that, that can challenge you and that can keep you surrounded by smart, innovative leaders, you know, you'll find it, you'll get there, you know, and, and, and trust yourself and, you know, be yourself. That's all, that's all you can do. Everything else is, you know, what are you gonna do? There's no, there's no handbook for many, much of this stuff, right?
[00:50:38] Speaker B: There is not. But that is why we have this podcast to help at least a little bit along the way. So, JPEGs, I just have a few reflective wrap up questions here for you. So this first one is your chance to brag. What would you say is your biggest success to date?
[00:50:53] Speaker A: Oh, man. Oh, I have so. Oh God. Success to date. Geez. Listen, I'm most proud of my team. I have the best team of media relations experts in the industry. I'm not, I'm not just bragging. I mean, it's true. We are the best. We are thoroughbreds. We are great people and we're great partners and I am so very proud of that. The folks on my team, I've been there nine years, going on 10. They've been here five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. It's wild. So, you know, when you got a good thing going, do what you can to kind of keep it, keep it intact. I'm very, very lucky. But I'm also proud of some of the medicines that I've helped companies usher into the world. Specifically the first gene edited medicine by CRISPR Therapeutics that was based on Nobel science and was recently was FDA approved a year or two ago. The first CRISPR based medicine ever approved by the FDA to treat conditions called beta thalassemia and sickle cell disease. Two very, very debilitating conditions that make you tethered to a hospital because you need infusions. And it was, it was incredible science, incredible excitement around this. But the most important thing I'm proud of is the very real patients who were brave enough to be part of that clinical trial and then when it was approved, received the drug and now are, you know, effectively cured from their disease. What a remarkable once in a lifetime thing. We're going to look back on CRISPR and 20 years from now, it's going to change medicine. And that was the start of it. Right. So Keytruda Merck. Hello. Immunotherapy is changing the game in cancer. You know, I worked on Keytruda when it was just getting its first approval. Now it's up to, you know, dozens. It is remarkable to be in the middle of an evolving landscape that's always changing, that is just helping real people.
So even just last week, the FDA approved a new test for colorectal cancer that was one of our clients that is going to help people, that is going to save lives. So again, it's an honor to be in the mix in medicine and science and help get out the amazing advances and information to people who need it the most.
[00:53:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. And in regards to your team being married to a Kentucky and I know calling them thoroughbreds is quite the, the compliment there. Jpegs.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: They're great. They're great. And they're a fun crew too. They're a fun crew and we got a few Penn State alum on the team as well. So they'll be. I hope they'll. They'll tune into this.
[00:53:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, hopefully you'll share it with them when this is out.
But on the flip side of all of those successes, I'm sure you've had some stumbles along the way. What was a transformational learning moment that you've had, and most importantly, what you took out of it to grow as a person or professional.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: I learned something every day. And my. The founder of our company, Real Chemistry, Jim Weiss, says, you can't have a breakthrough until you have a breakdown. Can't have a breakthrough until you have a breakdown. Okay, so let's just rethink. When we do have a breakdown, maybe there's some opportunity ahead that we're not tracking on. But one moment that comes to mind is when I was early in my career and I had an interest in this specialty of media relations, thought I was pretty good at it. I knew what I wasn't good at. Spreadsheets, you know, all of that. I don't want to do that. And I said, hey, I want to specialize in this area. I think I can. I can have some real impact, make some real impact. And they said, nope, you're too young. You haven't been here long enough. We have rules. You need to, you know, you need to abide by the. All the red tape and all the things. And I said, screw this. I said, I'm going somewhere where they're going to be happy that I want to grow in my career here and learn more and do this type of job. It's valuable. At the time, that was like an emerging kind of specialty. And so I left. I didn't like leaving the people, I didn't like leaving the clients. But I stayed in healthcare and I went to another firm that was building and cultivating an earned media team in healthcare. And, wow, that really set me off on my journey. So, you know, knowing when to call it, you got to know, and it's not personal. That wasn't personal against me. They didn't say no because I'm not a good person or I wasn't good at it. They said no because there were rules. It was too big of a company. They couldn't make an exception. But, gosh, did I. Learn to take a chance on yourself. Chances are you're going to be okay and you're going to. You're going to succeed and thrive and to always try to help people if they want to contribute in a different way, and they're excellent. Find a way to make that Happen. I would never want someone to leave my team just because they want to try something a little different or, you know, no, I want to help you. Come on. That helped all ships rise. So, anyway, that's what I learned. It was tough in the moment, Bruised my ego quite a bit. But in looking back, it was the best thing that could have ever happened because it got me on a whole different path.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: Well, it sounds like you would take your role as a mentor very seriously. So I would love to hear your thoughts on mentorship and how scholars can be effective mentees, but then also be effective mentors to those behind them.
[00:56:07] Speaker A: It's all about paying it forward, right? We have people. I mean, think about your. Your career, mine, all of ours. We all had people who helped us out in the very beginning. Right. It's so, so important. It means so much. We just had our. Our intern class is currently with us here at Real Chemistry, and, man, are they motivated. Psyched. They want to learn everything. They're raising their hand. They're so eager, and they are just thirsty for guidance and. And all the things. So, listen, my counsel to young people is, you're not going to have it all figured out. There's not going to be like a playbook that says, oh, if I do these 17 things, I will get there in this exact amount of time. No, it's fluid. That's how jobs are. So I try to tell folks that I mentor, and I do take that very seriously. You know, raise your hand, get involved in as much as you can, be helpful, know as much as you can about an industry, and be willing to play all the time, even when it's tough, and you're going to be just fine and be a nice person that people want to actually work with and seek out, because that'll make you successful. So I love getting involved in our mentorship programs at Real Chemistry. In fact, our president is kicking off a show, Shadow advisory board next week. I was just on a call about that, where we're going to have a group of 20 high performers advise us as leaders. Hey, what should we be doing differently? What's really annoying to you? What's working really well? I love that. That kind of constant feedback and listening. So there's so much we can learn from each other. I learn things from my. My younger colleagues constantly, and they can learn from us. So finding a way to make the time is incredible, critical, and it makes us all better. So you know what I would tell people? Don't just say, oh, hey, will you be my. My Mentor. No one's going to say yes because it seems it's time commitment. Whatever. Try to be useful. Hey, you know what? I'm really smart. Hey, hey, Pags, you know, I'm new. I'm really smart in this one area of TikTok. You know, what do you. What do you say about we. We meet for a beer once a month? I can spend some time educating you Pags, on what I'm seeing here on Tick Tock. Right? Because maybe you're not. And maybe you can school me on a couple topics. Right? Let's do that for a few months. What do you think? Whoa. Okay. That's specific. That's not a huge time commitment. And we're both getting something out of it. That's how you should kind of tee it up if you want to kind of be mentored or, you know, that. That, that'll work.
[00:58:35] Speaker B: I think it's appropriate you work for a company called Real Chemistry, because you're definitely keeping it real by telling your prospective mentees to grab a beer with you and not just a coffee.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: That's it. And to each his own. Bill, you know, do you. We could grab whatever you want, but I'll. I'll always. I'll take the beer every time.
[00:58:50] Speaker B: Well, you are dressed in classy tailgate chic.
[00:58:53] Speaker A: Yes, thank you.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: Seems appropriate.
[00:58:55] Speaker A: Thank you for recognizing that. I really tried.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Now, speaking of appreciation, I know you mentioned your thesis advisor quite a bit at the beginning, but are there any other professors or friends from your days here at Penn State that you want to give a shout out to?
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Oh, yes, there are so many. My gosh. I'm on a group text with all of my friends, my former roommates, so Jay and Paco and Amy and Rich, Roberto, and the list goes on and on. I want to thank. I so, so appreciate Professor Steven Brown. In fact, I owe him an email, and I'm taking that as an action item after this call to ping him and to just thank him for the impact he had on me and really encouraging me to. To take a chance on myself and try something hard. We had. I was going through on the text with my friends. We had this statistics professor. His last name was Hoffman. I couldn't find his first name, but it was Professor Hoffman. And he taught, like, Statistics 200. It was a night class, and me and all my roommates went and we had a freaking ball. We basically learned how to gamble. But it was. It was very fun. And he was so smart and phenomenal. And there were a couple Sociology professors we remember as being really impactful. So, gosh, I'm so lucky. The list goes on and on. And gosh, even Mrs. Wiggin, I gotta find her as well, because she deserves a big thank you for helping shape my trajectory in making me find Penn State. So for those of you listening, enjoy it. Don't stress out. Life will happen when you graduate. Enjoy every single second of your time at Penn State. And when in doubt, put down the books, put down the thesis. It'll be there later, don't worry. And go have some fun and come back to it because this is the, these are the days.
[01:00:41] Speaker B: I could not have said that any better. And in terms of you being ahead of the game for your clients, it's like if you learned how to gamble with statistics, obviously now with a lot of legalized sports betting and things, I.
[01:00:55] Speaker A: Stick to the scratch off. A scratch off on my birthday. That's it.
[01:01:01] Speaker B: JPEGs. What is the best way a scholar could reach out to you if they do want to grab a coffee or an adult beverage with you and pick your brain either in person in New Jersey or virtually over. Zoom that.
[01:01:14] Speaker A: Yeah, please ping me on LinkedIn. I think you'll, you'll include that in the, maybe in the show notes or, or whatever, but please ping me on.
[01:01:21] Speaker B: Very responsive.
[01:01:23] Speaker A: Follow me. Follow you back. Let's get some time. I work in New York City a few days a week, so I'm always in there or I'm in northern New Jersey and more. Getting more, even more involved in the Northern New Jersey chapter of Penn State alumni. So that'll be fun. So, gosh, just hit me up. Happy to take time and to meet you and hear what you're up to and, you know, help in any way I can.
[01:01:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. And if you're over 21, maybe you could meet up when you're back in town.
[01:01:50] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Certain establishments, yes. That would be fantastic.
[01:01:54] Speaker B: Nice day on the porch.
[01:01:55] Speaker A: Great idea.
[01:01:57] Speaker B: And speaking of Penn State specialties, JPEGs, the hardest question that I'm going to ask you hopefully all week that you've gotten, if you were a flavor of Berkey Creamery ice cream, which would you be? And the most important part here is why would you be that flavor?
[01:02:12] Speaker A: I would be. Wait for it. Happy, Happy. Joy. Joy. Because I'm generally a happy person and I freaking love coconut nuts and chocolate. Who doesn't? And that is my flavor. I love it. And I really think, you know, finding joy in what you do, whether that's work, life, so important and there is so much to be said about bringing a positive attitude towards your work, towards interactions and trying to help uplift other people. It will go a long way and it'll make life a hell of a lot more enjoyable. So that would be my my choice though Peachy Paterno is a close second.
[01:02:53] Speaker B: Oh, always, always a good choice there, especially as we record this in the the dog days of summer right before the students get back. Nice summer flavor there. But yeah, I appreciate you selecting Happy Happy Joy Joy. That is the underrated selection.
[01:03:06] Speaker A: So like, appreciate the Ren and Stimpy, right? Remember Happy Happy Joy Joy. That's what Ren and Stimpy. You're probably too young to remember who Ren and Stimpy are, but anyway, for another time.
[01:03:17] Speaker B: Well, that'll be my homework. Just like you have homework to reach out to all of those folks that impacted you. This wouldn't be an honors college podcast without a little bit of extra work coming out of it for you.
So jpegs, thank you so much for joining us and sharing all of your brilliant insights. I think it's really cool the space that you are at. We're communicating something really technical to those of us, whether the other technical folks like the physicians or and the the regulators or to us average folks who might be the end users of a medication or therapy. Before I let you have the last word, of course, this is a YouTube video, so we're going to say you need to like subscribe, leave a comment, all those good things. If you're listening on the audio version, do that on the podcast app that you're using, Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you're engaging with us. And with that JPEGs, I'll let you have the final word here on following the Gong.
[01:04:13] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. This was a blast. I love Penn State.
We are. I cannot wait to. I hope this was helpful. I can't wait to hear hopefully from some of your listeners. And let's all keep paying it forward. And I can't wait for football season to start. Let's.
