Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome back to following the Gone, a podcast for shrier scholars, bringing you mentoring on demand from scholar alumni. I'm your host, Sean Rohen. And our guest today, joining us from New York City is Brad Zanetti, a 2018 architectural engineering graduate. Brad currently serves as a principal solution engineer at Oracle. And we're going to talk about his path and advice for scholars like you. Brad, thanks for joining us here from the Big Apple.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Absolutely happy to be here.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: So, Brad, I always like to get started, set the baseline for our conversation. Lay a foundation, if you will. You will. You'll get that joke in a minute here watching. So how did you first end up at Penn State and becoming a shrier scholar?
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah, so I ended up at Penn State, and I don't want to shortchange myself here, but my older sister went to Penn State. I'm a Pennsylvania boy, despite how I sound like to see from the Bronxdale. And I knew that Penn State was the right track for me. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I really like the allure of architectural engineering as well.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Well, let's get into that. How did you end up picking architectural engineering? Were you always interested in construction? Were you like a big Lego builder as a kid? What? Of all the things here at Penn State, obviously, you said your sister is in line as well, so you know all the great opportunities here. How'd you zero in on that one?
[00:01:31] Speaker B: You know, it's funny you bring up the Lego thing because I was here in New York City. I live close to the theater district, and as you can imagine, there's a lot of theater people around. And I had the privilege of hanging out with a few of them the other day. And they come from the world of when they were kids. They watched the plays, the theater, the movies, all that. And they're like, musical theater is where I want to be, right? And they all that common thread of watching that one theater show or play. I feel like legos is what keeps us together here at AE. Right? Architectural engineering. If you probably ask any of my colleagues, I bet my top dollar that they've dabbled with some legos back in the day. I remember, you know, give my mother credit for this. She was very encouraging. And I remember showing her this Lego structure I built, and she was so amazed. She was like, wow, that's a beautiful building. I was like, ma, it's actually a car. But anyway, she's still like, you know, she was that lady that always gave me those words of encouragement, like, you should be an architect. You love Legos.
So I knew I wanted to do architecture at a pretty early age. Then I had a professor, a teacher, if you will, because he was a high school teacher and his name was Mister Edmonson. Great guy. Older guy. He actually retired right when I finished my senior year. And I think he held out for me and my classmates, too. And he was old school, right? He. He would shoot you straight. And he called me by my last name, Zanetti. And he'd say, zanetti, you'd be an idiot if you didn't do engineering, right? And I took his physics class, his chemistry class, all that. And he called me an idiot enough times where I was like, maybe this guy has a point, and I say that jokingly, but I found where I can marry the two. Architectural engineering. Architecture and engineering. With architectural engineering. And believe it or not, it might be believable to some of you because you're like, I've never heard of that. There's not a lot of universities that offer that. There's universities that offer architecture studio courses and programs. There's universities that offer civil engineering and construction engineering and all that good stuff, but not a lot of them marry the two in this way that architectural engineering comes together.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: So for those of us lay people, whether somebody who wasn't an engineering student or maybe high schoolers or early, like first year scholars, looking to kind of all the different engineering opportunities here, how would you describe architectural engineering relative to other engineering and to architecture, which is an entirely different college here at Penn State?
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I'd like to boil it down to this idea that we focus on buildings. The civil engineering friends, I love them. They're great. They focus on infrastructure. Think bridges and septic systems, and that's a less glamorous example, but it's true. And, you know, soil mechanics and all that good stuff, we focus on the buildings that we occupy. The one that you were in, the one that I'm in. And then everything that comes into it. Right. I'm no expert in every aspect of the building. I'm not designed to be. I focus on the construction management side of it, but I have colleagues that focused on the h vac side of it, the mechanical side of the plumbing. I have colleagues that focus on the structural side of it to make sure that, hey, this building's not going to fall on our heads. Right. So there's a lot of different avenues you can go down, even within architectural engineering.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Awesome. So we're going to have a lot more conversation here today about engineering and architecture in this intersection there. But I don't want to spoil the party too much there, Brad. So we're going to focus for a couple minutes here on your other opportunities on campus. And one of the things that you shared with me ahead of time was that you participated in what was then the PNC. It's now the Deloitte leadership Development center. Can you tell us a little bit about that program and how that's, you know, how did that impact your career, especially any, you know, going into your internships, which we'll discuss separately, but talk us through that program and what you learned.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: Yeah, so I was reflecting back on this, right. I know that was something that was of interest. I was like, man, I don't remember the details of it. And that's probably for a good reason. Right? Because it was a long day. I do recall that. And it was a couple thousand dollars of value in this assessment. And you had several folks with you, too, other students that were selected in this program. And it was quite an honor. But I take a step back and I'm like, you know, what was the best part about that is you start to think about leadership qualities. When I often reflect back on skills I built in college, there's always more work to be done. But the soft skills is what I really value. And this idea of leadership, I want to pursue leadership in my career. So that assessment was worth its weight. Even if I don't recall the details of the assessment, it was a long, comprehensive assessment. You're there for hours.
It still was a good takeaway for me to say, you know, I'm glad I started thinking about that early. And I encourage students to do that.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Excellent. And another great way to start building your leadership skills, your interpersonal skills, soft skills is being involved in things like different clubs, activities, societies here at our on campus, whichever one you're at within Penn State. And like many scholars, Brad, you were involved in quite a few. Can you tell us about which ones you participated in and how you've leveraged those experiences? Building your leadership as a student now in your career, whether it was in the consulting that we'll talk about or even now, like we mentioned, you're at Oracle Architectural engineers.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: We often get into working for builders and designers. I started to grow interest in real estate and consulting, and there was an opportunity through clubs that really helped push me towards that direction and even explore that avenue that ultimately I decided to pivot out of. And one of them was a real estate bootcamp. I don't know if they still exist within Penn State. I hope it does. And I'm sure there's some variation within real estate that's operating and thriving over there. But I often think back to extracurriculars, and I. I'm thankful I did that. It led to an internship to dabble in real estate. It was short term, right before I studied abroad, but it was still a great experience, and I met some really awesome people.
So think about not only pursuing clubs and extracurriculars that's within your wheelhouse, because I've done plenty of that within architectural engineering, and that's great, but also stuff that puts you outside your comfort zone or maybe is quenching some of that thirst of curiosity. Right. Thinking about areas that, hey, maybe this non traditional path for me and my major or my focus is something that could be a good route for me. So let's let me dip my toes in with some clubs that Penn State offers, because that is one of the best things. It's quite an eclectic group of people. Here at Penn State, we have all sorts of backgrounds and even on a global scale. So you're going to find what you're looking for and some variation.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Excellent. And I've heard, I think you've kind of alluded to something that I've heard before, which is like, find something that fits your, your academic, your career interests, find something that you're curious about, and then find something that's just like, something fun. Right. To, like, try to mix up and make sure you're getting some different opportunities there.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: And I heard you drop study abroad kind of nonchalantly in that. Tell us about your study abroad experience. Was that a, like a short term program, long term program. Did it connect to architecture or did you study something completely different where you went?
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it was all through my architectural engineering program.
You had two options. You could go to Italy and study in Rome, or you could go to China. So you could probably guess where my head was at, right. And I am proud to say that my friend convinced me out of it. So I thought, let me get back to my roots. My family's never been into Italy. I would love to see it. I love to experience a culture. It's my heritage. But my friend said, listen, buddy, you could go to Rome anytime in your life and have a great time, and it's relatively easy to get to China. On the other hand, you're not going to have this kind of experience where you're going to be toured around with somebody who speaks the language and with a group of people to actually study the architecture over there. So I said, well, I hate that you're right, but you are right. And I went to China and it was the best time of my life. It was incredible. Now I encourage anybody to study abroad. It's going to look different for all sorts of people with your majors and what's offered. And I understand it's not cheap. So find scholarship, because scholarships out there don't make that an excuse. Try everything you can to afford the opportunity to go out there. And I recognize that's easier for some than others, but the program itself. Shout out to Moses Ling. Professor Moses Ling. He ran an incredible program. He put up with me being one of many knuckleheads and we truly cherish that experience. We often talk about that experience and how much we learned and we grew from that because there's really just 13 people, a lot of us just from blue collar towns in Pennsylvania who had no business to be in China, but we were still there anyway. And we truly appreciated the culture and I, the atmosphere and seeing a whole nother side of what this world offers.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Well, that buddy of yours is a great friend for talking you out of that because the way you've been like lighting up and glowing, talking about that experience clearly was the right choice. And you know, you can always go with your family. Like you said, go visit your roots back in Rome. So that's pretty cool. Now, also, you talked about the finances. Shameless. Not so shameless. Plug. This is not at all shameful here. Very proud. We have lots of financing options to help you with grants, I should say, in the honors college to help you for those travel abroad opportunities. So come talk to us. You know, we, we've got that support thanks to alumni like the ones we feature here on the show who helped make that possible. And through the generous original gift from the Shrier family. So make sure you're taking advantage of that. Brad, before we go, we're going to do this a little bit out of order here. So we're going to talk thesis and then for all the AE students who are watching, then we're going to dive into the industry talk. So first we're going to talk thesis. Tell us about your topic. What did you learn and how did that experience influence your career? Whether that was the topic itself, the skills, anything else? What do you got?
[00:12:22] Speaker B: Sure. Well, here within architectural engineering, we Schreier or non Schreier, we have the luxury of writing thesis regardless. It's our rite of passage in our fifth year. It's a five year program.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: You say luxury is that I like that spin on it, sir. That's great.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
People writing the thesis right now knows exactly what I'm talking about when I say luxury. But ultimately, it's a really proud experience. And I'll phrase it that way, because you walk away. And I think all of us could say we're really proud of what we do and what we did, and that pride doesn't leave you. It's really neat talking point. If you have the opportunity to talk about it in a job interview, or if, you know, you're in a situation where you're talking about your academics, it's just. It's really a great aclement if you were to ask me, but I did a thesis on the building I worked on as a student, so some of you might live in the Met, which is called the Metropolitan Building. Don't get angry at me if you're experiencing any leaks in the roof or anything.
No. But it was a great team that I work with, and landmark properties was really gracious to me, to hire me and give me the experience as a student student, but also as a professional to build my skillset. And I also am very thankful for the team that I work with to let me write my thesis on it. So I had the neat experience of taking a project that I worked on, a construction project, which I believe, twelve story building. And it's mixed use with some commercial aspects on the ground floor, right on the corner of Atherton and college, and take that real life experience and try to apply an academic lens to it. And so I evaluated the existing structural system and said, well, what if we did it this way instead? And what would have improved as far as scheduling and cost and lead times? And then I got to look at the existing mechanical system, what software we were using for construction productivity and construction management solutions, and looking at that lens and even some of the challenges within our industry, which is a labor shortage. We don't have enough people to work these jobs, and they're really great jobs. And something for us to be proud of is Penteco, also in our neighboring town, close by here in Pennsylvania, where they're creating these skilled workers and these nefarious trades that we so badly need. But I evaluated the prospect of bringing non traditional construction expertise into our or profession, which I looked at. Occupational therapist. My sister at the time was going through physical therapy, doctorate program at Thomas Jefferson in Philip. And I saw how skilled she was and how much she was learning, and how incredibly brilliant those people are in those highly competitive programs. And looked at their counterparts as occupational therapists and said, we could really use these folks to help as safety managers to make sure our workers are working properly and they're not putting too much stress on their back every day or tweaking their neck. Because also, growing up in Pennsylvania in a blue collar town, we have seen the repercussions of poor laborious practices that come from some of these really honest tradesmen like such as electrical workers and laborers who do really great work, but it wears them down for decades of doing it. So that's just a little preview to my thesis. I don't want to go too far into that, but I always appreciate having that experience.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: That's awesome. I love the creativity there of looking at the people element because buildings ultimately are built by people and they are built for people, right?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: So we talked thesis. Now we're going to go backwards a bit here and we're going to dive into your career. But starting with, you know, looking through your LinkedIn, Brad, you had a ridiculous number of internships. Pre professional, paraprofessional, however you want to phrase it, opportunities. Even before you graduated and got your first, like full time adult role, if you will, out as an AE. So walk us through how you took advantage of like, how did you find those opportunities? What advice you have for students and what were some of the things that you were doing and learning and accomplishing in these different roles? Because again, it was. It was like the whole page. Like it was pretty extensive. So this is a chance to brag a little bit and tell us about those experiences.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: The only thing I'll brag about is I needed money. So I figured out ways to make a few bucks.
I do appreciate the experience I got, and it wasn't without very generous working professionals affording me that opportunity. There's just a heartwarming amount of people out there that show a lot of empathy for students knowing that they were in your shoes before, too, and are willing to give you opportunities to not only gain great experience, hit the market hard when you graduate, but also make some bucks while you're a student. So I did. I did find myself having to make some money in school and that pushed me to say, hey, you know, I'm getting this great education right now and I'm something. I love constructions. Let me try to get jobs in construction. And I worked at lineline. I called my fair share of alumni asking them for $20, but I decided to move forward and I had roles with various general contractors and I did a summer internship to really kick me off, as a lot of people do. And that was after my sophomore year, and I really enjoyed it. And I said, let me take that skill set. Start knocking on some doors locally here in state college, and construction jobs. There's trailers all nearby, so I had a few people bite. I had that job on the Met, as I was talking about, even before that. Fortunately, I had a car at the time, and I was able to drive to Altoona. It was two or three times a week. And Hollidaysburg more specifically, hop on, what is that highway 90 there, 91. And work on a UPMC medical office building being built out there. Just really phenomenal team. That was super kind and taught me a lot. And then I said, you know what, it would be nice if I didn't have to commute anymore. And so I found plenty of work around here on campus and off campus. And I even ended my tenure at Penn State, my fifth year working on east halls, which is still going on today. And they have a top notch national contractor working there, Clayco. And they have a really solid team that's doing an absolutely beautiful job. I had the privilege to walk around that campus and see it nearly complete. And I got to say, they just did a fantastic job over there with renovating those halls. But that was another great experience for me. So keep in mind, folks, I know not everybody here is architectural engineering, if any at all. But think about what you like doing and what you're studying right now, and try to sell yourself locally. See if you can get some part time work. It doesn't have to be a lot. You guys are busy students. You're doing a whole lot of stuff you're studying. You got to keep those grades up. I get those pressures. But start knocking on some doors. People appreciate the old school way of handing out your resume like a flyer and then follow up with an email and say, hey, I stopped by, dropped off my resume. Just wanted to follow up to see if you have any opportunities for me.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Brad, that is a really, really good piece of advice. There's a lot of opportunities in state college. It's not as small of a town as you think it is, especially when you consider some of the other areas like Bellefont, and also looking out for those. They don't have to be a formal 40 hours internship. It can just be like a part time thing, working in with your classes. Same way you integrate those leadership opportunities like the real estate programs and things like that. And, you know, looking at these halls, they look a lot different than they did for me, then they did when you, when you started as a student. And I'd be curious, can you talk a little bit more about like that? Had to have been a unique experience doing that. Right here on campus were something that so many generations of Penn staters have, whether they lived in them or had friends that lived in them or partners that lived in them, have a connection to those buildings. So what was that like? What, what kind of projects were you working on with that? And how did that make you feel? Contributing at least a little bit to the legacy of University park?
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a neat feeling running back up these halls as a fifth year, like I did when I was a freshman in college, running from class almost late. You know, I had my construction boots on, but it was like full circle. I loved every second of that. And that team over there, they afforded me the opportunity to be able to work through my class schedule and still be there to help them out wherever I can. So I was working at the time. Let's see, they were gearing up on Brumbaugh hall, which is now complete, and that's the hall that I lived in. So they're again ready to work on that when I was just starting out there and leaving. So that was neat. They were nearly complete with a brand new hall. What is that, McKinnon or that brand new construction? They actually built it right on the lawn, which is a beautiful building.
But I was in charge. Well, not in charge. I was supporting a few different things. One of them was deficiency. So you had somebody go around, a consultant and check on the construction and see if there's anything that was deficient by their standards to flag it. So it could be a remedy. And I think that's really just a true testament to the standard that the university holds their contractors to, to make sure students are getting a really great product. But also the ability for the contractors that they do hire to uphold those standards, like Clayco has done and will continue to do with their work because they. They stayed on top of it. And it's very apparent when I walk up there and I just see how excellent of a job they've done up there.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: They really are beautiful. And same goes for the south halls renovation that was done beforehand. So. Looks wildly different than those of us. I graduated 2011, so certain alumni of a certain age just looks totally different. So good job on beautifying those residence halls there, Bradley. Now, I learned something new when I was prepping for this. You used this abbreviation because it's Penn state. And of course we love our abbreviations, but this one sounds like it might be an industry term as well. Ace architecture, engineering, and construction. I hadn't heard that before. But if you're an AE student watching or listening, I'm sure you're like, Sean, duh. How did you not know that? But the question I have for you, Brad, is how does that vary? Because you've talked about healthcare. You worked on a UPMC facility, Penn State, which was kind of both education and residential because it was a residence hall. And then also on your LinkedIn, you had some sites that were purely residential, industrial. How does, how are things the same across those? And how do things vary when it's industry specific?
[00:23:52] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. And that takes some time to really understand, folks, because for students listening to this, I do want to take a step back and say you might be stepping into professions that fall into this realm of professional services. You could be a lawyer, you could be a consultant, you could be a construction expert. And your markets. So to say that your company that you're working for might be industries that people actually work in full time. So you have your pharmaceutical friends in the pharmaceutical industry, or you have your lawyer friends that might be servicing the pharmaceutical industry in addition to somebody that's within the power and energy industry or the casino and entertainment industry. So that is a larger landscape now in construction, because you have that opportunity to service different industries.
You might work for a company that says, hey, we are experts at power and utility, so we do what they call horizontal construction for most of the time. And they, they might just focus on that sort of breadth of work because it does vary. Right? So you might find yourself in construction doing a lot of vertical construction, the high rises with the buildings that might fall into the world of the residential projects or here in New York, the corporate office buildings that you see a lot. And that requires a whole different skill set. There's a lot of parallels, the processes at a much higher level. And when I say higher level for the students, I'm just talking about more simplistic level will be similar. But when you get into the nuance, you're dealing with different products, you're dealing with maybe different structural systems or different mechanical systems, and your focus might be in different areas. If you're building a data center, everybody who's using your social media and using all these softwares online, that's being fueled by these data centers that are just not. They can't be built fast enough, right? There's so many of them. There's big players building them. We truly can't build them fast enough. Those data centers require an expertise with your mechanical systems because that is a lot of computers in there. That's really cranking out a lot of heat. And you need to be able to keep that place nice and cool and exhaust that heat. You have to have an expensive h vac system, mechanical system to facilitate that. So I don't want to get too far into that. I don't want to bore my students here that aren't architectural engineers. But also think about these folks that want to be consultants or want to get into law. Start thinking about industries that excite you because you can marry them, right? You might say, Mandy, Brad's talking about this construction, and I get excited when I see buildings get put up. I like playing with Legos, but I'm really dedicated to be a lawyer. That's fine. Be a lawyer. Do it. Do if that's the track you're on and you're excited about. But think about maybe being a construction lawyer. Right. Or figuring out a niche industry to marry a more practical role that you think also suits you, too, you know?
[00:27:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I think that's a perfect fit for Schreier Scholars. You could be going into law, but maybe you work with one of the trade groups or you work with the contractors, or you've working on the real estate transactions to get the properties to even build these places in the first place. Right. So there's plenty of opportunities there. And you've mentioned consulting a few times, and you've also had a life as a consultant. Bradley, first you started as an internship that you did at Deloitte. Then you also parlayed that into your first full time job. How did you figure all that out? Because there is a bit of a process with those big name brand consulting firms. Talk us through that.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Yes, mine was non traditional. So that's a big disclaimer I'm putting out to you students. Some of you are looking into the big three, the big four, you know, the McKinsey's. You might be looking into the big four. Accounting, like the PwC's, Deloittes. They all have different tracks. Mine was very non traditional, but that's all thanks to Penn State. I use Penn State's internal application and recruitment network. I hope that still exists in some form. But I saw an application opportunity for Deloitte, and I knew really nothing about consulting other than talking to my friends. But it interested me. And more specifically, it aligned with my engineering construction experience because in the description it talked about that it was a consulting role for engineering and construction people. So I got lucky. I also used Penn State's tools that were provided to me, which, thank you, Penn State. And I didn't have an option to go anywhere else than Pittsburgh, but I didn't care because it was a great option. It was a great city, and I work with great people, so I was happy to take whatever opportunity I could find.
I did my internship, met some incredible people. I knew I wanted to be closer to the east coast, so I was able to use Deloitte's internal networking system to reach out to the recruiter out there, which was a little bit outside of the realm of what they would appreciate you to do. Right. It wasn't protocol to do that, and I got my wrist slapped for that. But it was a really beautiful mistake for me because it got me where I wanted to be on the east coast, where I wanted to live despite having such an incredible experience in Pittsburgh.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: Yeah, there's sometimes there's some, you know, you got to learn that organizational culture, like, which are the ones where it's very processed and bureaucratic and which are the more free flowing, entrepreneurial and, you know, a great skill to develop in life. Brad. Right. Is one to ask for permission and one to ask for forgiveness. Right. And having the wisdom to know which is the one you need to go with at a given time.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: That's right. And I wish I could say I had the wisdom. I didn't. I was just firing from the hip, but I'm glad I did.
[00:29:56] Speaker A: Well, it sounds like it all worked out. Now you get this full time role back on the east coast. What sorts of tasks or projects or clients did you engage with in your first, you know, right out of college role at Deloitte? As an entry level consultant, I was.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Put into a group that was made up of a lot of mechanical engineers. They're doing what's called tangible asset valuations, a lot of excel modeling, all that fun stuff. Right. And so my. My clients at the time were. Some of them were big developers that had all these physical assets that we helped try to accelerate the depreciation. Just a fancy way of making money back in your taxes. And some of them were big oil and gas companies, too. Right. I actually didn't want to do that. So all the scholars listening, you might not have a choice. Right out of the gate. I was happy to be with Deloitte. I was happy to be with a team that was tangent to the team that I really wanted to be with. And frankly, I didn't know really where they were going to place me until I showed up that day on the east coast. But I'm thankful for it because I was able to transfer to the team I wanted to be with within a year internally and start working with clients and customers that were more within my wheelhouse of services. So that's more of the traditional project management, construction, audit process, improvement within engineering and construction, working with developers, owners that were building things like Rockefeller universities expansion here in New York, NYU with their healthcare campus. So there's some really cool opportunities that I got to be involved in.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: So, Brad, you've shared quite a bit of advice here so far, but what advice would you give to current scholars who are, or maybe those who are just graduated and entering into this profession?
What would you tell them so that they can have a successful first couple years as they, similar to you, cut their teeth and pay their dues? If use whatever cliche you want here in those entry level consulting roles, whether it's Deloitte, McKinsey, BCG, or another one.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Please use your discretion at understanding the balance between advocating for yourself and making sure you're going down the track you want to, then also being willing to accept things, tasks that you didn't envision yourself doing. That's. I'm not treading into the world of unethical. You should always make sure you're practicing ethically. I'm treading into the world of doing roles that you thought wasn't part of necessarily the job where, like I said, I was doing that asset valuation. I didn't see myself ever doing that. I didn't want to do that, but I was able to still accept. So I can still stay with Deloitte and then figure out ways to network and advocate for myself to get transferred to another team that was more appropriate for my experience. And that doesn't mean I did it flawlessly. That doesn't mean you'll execute it flawlessly either. But just be mindful of relationships that are, that exist even prior to you being there, such as relationships between your bosses, relationships between your managers, what your manager's role is and what that means to you, and start thinking about other roles outside of your own. Because we are conditioned in the world of academia to be minding ourselves and really focusing on ourselves. But once you get into the professional world, you have to be mindful of other people's roles, too, and how you fit into that.
So scholars be okay with saying yes to things that you don't want to do long term because nothing is forever and you don't want to be that guy constantly refusing work that your boss is trying to keep you busy with. Right. So be a team player, but also use your discretion on how to pivot out of that if that's making you.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: Unhappy, and especially if it's not unethical. Right. It's not against company policy, it's not against the law. Good learning opportunity, right? Like, you can draw back on it in the short term. It's like, yeah, this, this kind of sucks, but, you know, long run, it's not going to be forever.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:34:22] Speaker A: So you do, you do the consulting gig, and eventually, Brad, you decided it's time to move on to the next thing. So how did you figure out that you needed to pursue something different? Like what was. Talk us through that internal monologue.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So I had a few opportunities in that consulting gig that was related to technology within construction. That got me excited. And I started saying, okay, Brad, start moving your career in the direction that excites you the most. And it was a little scary because it was quite a shift. And a lot of the coaching I got, they were saying, like, listen, just recognize that this shift is something different. You know, it's not the same track. But I said, you know what? It's time for me to make that shift.
And I was super fortunate that when I had that job back in Altoona in 2015, I was commuting to Hollidaysburg. I was hired by a gentleman, a fellow Penn stater, a fellow Ae as well. And he, when he hired me, he actually ended up moving on to another opportunity before I even started my job. And he was this young, bright professional, just really on a fast track upward, very hardworking. And he became a mentor figure to me. And no, I didn't call him every week or stay in touch in that capacity. But every once in a while I had questions and I said, hey, Josh, can I jump on a call with you? He was always very gracious to do that, even though he moved, went elsewhere at the company. But what he did is he ended up getting into construction tech. So he's the first guy I ever met that was in construction tech way before I was even interested in it. So as soon as I started to grow some interest, he was the first guy I called. He coached me through the process. He started giving me the lay of the land. And I still think back, and I'm like, if I never did that internship out in Altoona just for part time work, 12 hours a week as a student, I probably never would be in this career that almost seems opposite in some senses.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: So you've talked about tech and software a few times here, so let's dive into that.
What does it actually mean to be a solutions engineer and to work in, to use your words, complex digital transformations, particularly as it relates to construction, building, or the ace as you called it?
[00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's me just using fancy words to sell myself scholars. What I do is I demonstrate software, I demonstrate tools and I help manage folks that are much more skilled than I am at demonstrating that software and tools. So when you hear solution engineering, you might hear solution consultant, you might hear other variations, they're all very similar roles, but you're helping the sales team in showing the capabilities of what you're selling to that potential customer. That's what it is. I find myself servicing the AEC industry, which is great. I still get to stay involved within the industry that I love and I spend a lot of time educating myself in and it really makes me an industry expert and a lot of conversations that I'm having.
But there's plenty for me to learn. I'm still young, especially in the role that I'm in, and it affords me that opportunity to continue to learn to make some mistakes within a comfortable environment, to ensure that nothing is detrimental, and then to learn from those mistakes and continue to push myself to learn areas that I'm not an expert in. So that's been really neat for anybody who's interested in technology but doesn't come from a software engineering background. I don't have to know how to code. I'm not a software engineer, I not a technology expert. Prior to joining Oracle, I'm learning that through my consulting days and then also as I'm learning that on the job now with Oracle and it's really helping me become a trusted advisor to our customers and potential customers within the AEC industry.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Is it fair to say that essentially you're like a super user of that software and you're helping to translate that to? I'm guessing in your case it's probably a lot of general contractors or subcontractors and developers who are in need of some kind of tech solution to track everything related to building a house, factory, skyscraper, whatever they're building.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Definitely. Absolutely. It's some cases I am subject matter expert and I'm going to show their potential users how the software would look for them. And this is all software that is the business end of building that house or that widget in a manufacturing setting or that skyscraper in a large, bigger much larger setting. So we are the accounting software, we're the supply chain software, we're the human capital software, we're the customer experience software, and much more. And I have the privilege to work with subject matter experts that are much more experienced and knowledgeable than I, that I get to learn from every day and coordinate with them, on them. Being able to put their best foot forward in front of the customer, too, and making sure everybody's successful.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: Excellent. And you kind of touched on this a little bit, but how did you prepare yourself to move from, like, you know, one point you referenced, you were trekking up to east halls and your construction boots. You're probably wearing the safety yellow or safety orange vests and the hard hats on site to working in a tech firm. You might be in like, a more modern office. You might be working remote, very different type of environment.
How did you change that? And how did you bring the perspectives from working hands on in construction to your work now as this solutions engineer?
[00:40:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
Well, I think level setting expectations, knowing what I was signing up for, there's some things that I do miss dearly about being boots on the ground and being able to walk the job site and see a tangible product develop in front of you. It's something magical about that. And there's not a boring, dull moment in that industry, for better or for worse, but understanding that I am transitioning to a more remote environment and that it's going to be different and there's going to be some growing pains there, but also knowing that you're not going to be 100% sure about it, you just have to try it out. Nothing is forever. And if there could have been a scenario where I did this for a year and I said, this isn't for me, let me go back to the job site, but that hasn't happened, and I'm glad that I'm still moving forward with something that I really enjoy. So that helps a lot. Now, using that experience, it's not one to one, not all the time could I extrapolate my experience in the field to now working in front of a camera or in front of a customer, presenting software to them. But there's aspects where I need to put on my creativity hat, my thinking hat and say, what's a neat story that I could pull from? That's either a story that I just inherited from working with somebody who's been in the industry for 30 years or something that actually happened to me in my short stay working in the field, and how do I make it relevant to this person that I'm talking to. Right. So I'm quite deliberate though, to stay within industry. I'm working with an engineering and construction. I think that's the right move for me in the long term. I don't have a crystal ball though. I could always pivot into other industries. But it's been really great for me, both on a happiness scale and just being able to exercise some existing skill sets scale to be working within that AEC industry.
[00:42:08] Speaker A: Now. Brad, I think a unifying feature for just about every scholar, current future or alum is that we're all lifelong learners. And whether your boots on the ground at the job site or your remote demoing for a contractor, technology, policies, culture, regulations, they're constantly changing in all of the fields that you've talked about, whether it's the tech, the actual building codes, everything in between. How do you stay up to date on all these changes so that you can be the best sales person, the best translator, the best solutions provider for your clients?
[00:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah, right off the bat I don't. Right. And I know that's jarring to scholars out there. We want to know everything. But I accept that, that I won't know everything. Now, when it comes to the nuance of building code, for example, if I'm still in the industry, there's going to be professionals that dedicate their professional livelihood to stay up to date on the code and to help instruct us on how to stay within the realms of the code. Now, it is important to know enough to be dangerous and to always sharpen your saw and do continuous education, whether formally or informally. So I do always exercise that. That's out of interest and curiosity and wanting to grow as a professional. But there is countless things within my role in tech, countless things outside of that, that I can't possibly know everything. And part of my job is to know when I don't know and make sure I bring in somebody who does know. And that's the fun part, because then I get to learn. And then maybe there's moments where I could exercise that knowledge and I don't have to pull on that expert because I've been able to learn from that and I've been able to stay up to date on some things that are super relevant. So it is absolutely worth trying, but not exhausting yourself in doing so.
[00:44:03] Speaker A: I think that is really grounded. I like that. Brad.
Now we're going to pivot.
You said you're still young in your career. This podcast, if we redid this in five or ten years to look very different in the topics we talk about. But right here, right now, I think one thing that will probably stay consistent for you if we did this again in ten years is that you're very involved in both community and industry organizations. Why do you take free time that you have as an early career professional and invest that time and energy into those groups, whether it's something local or something that pertains to your day job?
[00:44:45] Speaker B: Two reasons. One, for me that drives me is community. As I get older, I realize how special community is for my Pennsylvania friends that grew up in those smaller, blue collar towns. I think one of the things we do really, really well is community, and we take that for granted. I didn't understand that until I was in a big city where you could easily get lost. And the community you have is something that you have to build.
So sons and daughters of Italy is one of the organizations I'm involved in. And they have a lodge, the Petrosino lodge in Little Italy here in New York. And my great grandmother came off the boat and lived in that area, specifically Soho, just a little west of that. And so I knew I wanted to get in touch with that community, learn from the people who, who were born and raised there and are either still living there or living close by in Brooklyn or Long island, and learn from them and also help give back, too. And that's been really fun. So building that community, second, is just growing as a professional. Some of the things like CII, the construction industry institute, it's one of the leading research and development organizations within the construction industry, which we really need to emphasize and grow.
And that's been super rewarding to keep myself within the industry and be around folks that are super technical and savvy within the industry that I'm not often around these days, and continue to learn from them while still applying whatever skill set I can on the technology side. So recap community and then also growing as a professional.
[00:46:23] Speaker A: And those are, again, I think, two hallmarks of scholars, no matter whether you're ae or any of the other majors, disciplines, industries that you could go into. So I think that's great, Brad.
Now, something that you're also really good at, it looks like, is looking at your LinkedIn. You are incredible at translating your roles into resume speak. So how did you learn to do that? And what advice do you have for scholars to make sure that they also have a robust LinkedIn profile? As you know, they go for internships, job one, job two, grad school, whatever it is.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: You're making me smile because that was one of my biggest insecurities, coming in as a scholar. And I don't know if it's the same process as it was when I came in at 2013, but we had to take honors courses, right? But some of them were mandatory, and the mandatory one was this year long english speech class that terrified me. I tried everything I can to get out of it. I was like, could I take additional honors in math and science?
Terrible writer. My grammar was awful. Not good at enunciating. Still working on that. And my writing was really bad. But through that nervousness and that fear pushed me to use Penn State resources. Penn State had that writing center. I hope it's still around. But much more brilliant writers from english majors, liberal arts, all that good stuff. They would just do a free peer review of your papers and help proofread it. And there was a cycle where I came in as a freshman and they'd red pen my papers, and there'd be a lot of red ink, let's just put it that way. And then I continued to go throughout my years at Penn State, and I really focused on trying to get better. I really didn't want to build it, and I would. I do submit a lot of scholarship letters, and inherently, through that process of trying to apply for scholarship money, I had to write a lot, and it pushed me to write better. And I'd copycat. I'd find partners that I had in class that saw their writing style. I'm like, that's really brilliant. I think they're articulate. I like that a lot. I like the writing style. And so I started to mimic and try my best to replicate some other people's writing styles that I thought were really. And it led to my fifth year going back to that writing center, and it was such a rewarding. I had no idea what to expect. I was expecting all this red ink on the paper again, and the lady was reviewing my paper and was like, I think this is fine. What are you talking about? It's like, I still have struggle. I struggle with my theirs. And you're saying, this is fine, but she's like, this is. This is great. And I was such a. A great reflection process that I'm like, wow. I actually grew as a writer, and I had a friend that validated that, too, just through being kind and a nicely written letter for fun. And so I. I'm not the best writer, I will certainly say that, but I've come a long way, and I thank the resources at Penn State and the challenges of scholarship opportunity, too. That got me there. So how does that translate to LinkedIn copycat? Look at other great linkedins and, and see what makes sense. There's no slap on the wrist for doing this. This is what we call in the architecture world finding a precedent. Right. A lot of artists do that like they find a precedent, and that's really just something that inspired them to do something similar. So find your precedent on LinkedIn. Some folk that did it really well. I know generative AI is doing a knockout job providing some help, too. So use chat GPT if that could help you. I haven't really ventured in that space, but I'm sure it's great and could help get the juices flowing and go to take some resume writing workshops at Penn State, too, because I've been through a few of those my freshman year and so on, where there's older scholars or folks that could do a peer review of your resume and help you get your professional speak down.
[00:50:23] Speaker A: That was a really deep answer, and I really appreciate that. Bradley, trying to hit on the personal reflection, the resources here at Penn State, regardless of which campus you're at, there's awesome resources. So can't stress that enough. Take advantage of that, whether that's study abroad funding, go to the bank of America, career services, your home units, career services, the writing center, whatever it is that you need, probably have it here. So make sure you're using that.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: Now, I think we've firmly established, you said some great advice earlier, Brad, about when you don't know something, you go and ask the other people at Oracle to come help you. When you know you get questions because humility of not knowing things. Well, guess what? I might be the son of a trades person, but I don't know much about construction and engineering or really anything that you have the expertise in here. So what are the questions that I should have asked today, but because I'm just not an expert in this area, I didn't ask, or a better way to phrase this is probably what are the questions that you get from interns or mentees or friends or junior employees, whether your time at Deloitte or at Oracle that we can talk about here before we go into our wrap up questions?
[00:51:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good one. I'm going to have to think on that because I've been in these roles now where I've often been the junior or the new guy on the team. And so I'm just really starting to transition into this role as a mentor now in my career. It's taken me a long ways to get there, and I still have a lot of years to accumulate to really get in that role of frequently mentoring folks. But even trying to think about questions that I may have had, and if we're just talking about specifically architectural engineering, there might be a lot of questions from incoming freshmen on what focus they want to do. Right. It could be electrical. It could be mechanical, structural, or construction management. And lighting is with an electrical as well. Start thinking about what really excites you. Right. You don't have to make that decision now, but what really excites you? And also, where does your skillset lie? You know? Are you doing a really great job with computation formulas? Because structural might be the great route for you. Do you want to get into more of the creative aspects of it? Because then lighting might be a great way to go. If you look at lighting design, the way I see the Empire State Building lit up at night, that's because lighting engineers and lighting designers were super intentional on the lighting to really make it an absolute crown in the sky at night and it's really beautiful. Or you might like doing more of the management, like me. So I did construction management.
So start asking those questions. You don't have to figure it out early on. You can explore different options through internships. So keep on hitting that round and beating that drum. And don't be afraid to venture into that early on. I know it's not easy to get an internship after your freshman year, but maybe if you go back to your hometown in New Jersey or Maryland or Pennsylvania, wherever you're from, and you could ask youre a, your father, your mother or your neighbor if they have a friend that's within some kind of world of construction or engineering or design. See if they'll give you internship. Right. Something a little bit informal, but a great way to stink your teeth into things like that.
[00:53:51] Speaker A: I think that's really smart. And honestly, Brad, you could probably apply that to just about anything, right? Shadow a lawyer or a physician or anything really, right. A lot people love to talk about themselves and show off what they're doing, right?
[00:54:08] Speaker B: That's right. That's exactly what I'm doing right now.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: So it's your turn. Speaking of showing off, one of the questions I always love to ask everybody is, this is your chance to brag.
This may change over time as you accumulate more. But what would you say is your biggest success in your career so far?
[00:54:29] Speaker B: Did see this question coming, too?
Let's see. What do I feel?
I would say the biggest success for me was finding a role that made sense for my life, where I'm at. And I know that sounds super general and generic, but I'm really happy with the role I'm in, and I'm thankful for it. And it might not be a forever role, as no role should be, but it took some scary leaps, right? It took some swallowing the fear of the unknown to get there. And it's non traditional for what I studied, but I'm really happy to be where I'm at. And so I will say that I.
[00:55:15] Speaker A: Think that's really important to enjoy the journey, right? Not just the destination.
On the flip side, though, Brad, what would you say is the biggest transformational learning moment or mistake that you've made in your career? And most importantly, what did you learn from that experience that has helped you grow?
[00:55:36] Speaker B: I think it's this notion that when I came out of college, I thought it was that formula that we are conditioned for in academia, which is you put in the work, you get the grades right, you study, you stay on top of your stuff, you get a positive outcome. And there's still a very important factor in working in the professional world, which is hard work, but it's not as linear. There's other factors in there, like the relationship with your direct manager is super important. So you could be an all star and get your work done super fast and super well. But if you don't have a good relationship with your manager, you might see some detrimental effects, right? You, they could be the one driving your performance review or reporting up your performance through the your boss's boss, right? So be super mindful of relationships. Don't just think you could outwork every situation. It's not always about working hard. Sometimes it is about working smarter. And I always was a big proponent against that cliche in academia. But now I'm starting to realize that there's truth to that in some situations. So don't be so bullish and thick headed. Like I was coming out of college where I thought, let me just keep on applying this formula. Let me show off the earliest, leave the latest, put in the work, do it fast, do it, do it well, and expect the results, because that's not how it works. You have to really drive your career forward. You have to be mindful of relationships that you surround yourself with and take ownership of that.
[00:57:11] Speaker A: Amen. Brad, your manager can really unlock opportunities for you and elevate you and name drop your name in a room, right? In a good way or a bad way. And they can also shield you from opportunities, too. So that is really insightful to make sure that you are clicking with that manager, and if you're not, maybe find a new one.
[00:57:34] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:57:35] Speaker A: So, we've talked about this a little bit, and you're still early in your career, but how do you see, what do you recommend to scholars to have a successful mentoring relationship, both as a mentee when they're current student, early in their career, but also as a mentor for those who are immediately following behind them? You're still young, and I'm sure you. You're mentoring those who are right behind you, what strategies work, and that you would encourage and habits that scholars should invest in building.
[00:58:04] Speaker B: Right. So I'm actually simply regurgitating what I heard from a panelist at the connect event a few months back, and I.
[00:58:13] Speaker A: Like this not so shameless plug.
Make sure you attend next year. Whenever. Whenever you're watching this, watch out. It's typically late March or early April.
[00:58:21] Speaker B: Mm hmm. That's right. It was awesome. I know the scholars learned a lot, too, but they got to ask their questions and whatnot. So, from the perspective of a mentee and you are seeking a mentor and maintaining a relationship with the mentor, don't feel like that. You have to maintain it with regular communication. Frankly, probably that mentor would be like, it's nice that we don't have to chat every week or chat every month or whatever. If you want to check in, just drop a note. Say, hey, you know, I thought about you and your advice that you gave me. Just came up in this real life example. Just want to send you that. That's really sweet. That's really kind. A mentor would say, oh, that makes me happy that you took my advice and you saw it. Be fruitful, but be super mindful of their time. I've had plenty of calls, just networking calls, as you could tell by all the things I spewed out today. I was a bit bullish with just reaching out to people. People. And there's sometimes where there's calls, I'm like, well, I really didn't do a good job on that one, right. Because I could tell I inconvenienced them. I was asking questions that were very generic and I probably could have figured out on my own and felt like maybe I just did it for the sake of doing it because I thought that was what you're supposed to do. So you'll get a read on somebody. Right. If somebody feels like you're wasting their time, you're going to sense it. We're all these scholars that you could, you know how to read people to a certain extent, so be mindful of that. If you're going to connect with somebody, really appreciate their time. Make sure that you're, you're prompt with the call. Make sure that you coordinate the scheduling yourself and that you're, you're taking lead on that. So it's not just like, oh, just, you know, whenever you want to do it? No, just give them times, give them availability and say, will these times work for you? And set up the call. Make sure you're the one who calls them. And as far as being a mentor, do it if it makes you happy. Right. Don't feel like you always have to mentor someone for the sake of doing it. But like we just talked about Sean is like we like to talk about ourselves. Right. It sounds a bit narcissistic, but that's the human condition. And I've learned that dealing with the trades in construction, where I was this young, bright eyed kid that I didn't know up from down in the construction world, and you're dealing with a tradesman that might have been doing this for 30 years, and he or she knows everything about a specific trade that you know nothing about. But what's been great is you could talk to them about it, framing in the sense of their expertise. And they were super excited to do it because that's what they've been doing for 30 years. That's what they like talking about and, you know, sharing. So it could be a really beautiful quality if you recognize it in that lens. So I digress.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: No, I think that was all spot on. I think that's good management, too. Not just mentorship, but is asking questions. Right. Like getting to know people and really valuing what they bring to the table, no matter what that is.
And I will say, Brad, you practice what you preach, because I always ask people to get on here a few minutes early, and sure enough, our time was booked for 130. And I think at, like, 126, I get the little pop up. Brad's in the waiting rooms.
So early is on time, right?
[01:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's why. Listen, I'm not always early. I. I'm never happy when I'm late, but it happens. Life happens. So I'm glad I was on time for this one.
[01:01:41] Speaker A: Me, too. And if they're not, give them grace. It's a crazy world we live in.
[01:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:47] Speaker A: Now, Brad, are there any professors or friends or employers from your scholar days that you want to give a shout out to? I've heard quite a few names of folks, but this is your chance to really like call them out in a good way here.
[01:02:01] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So Doctor Guttgold was the assistant dean at the time I took a leadership class. She is awesome.
Really a shout out to her for that. And that was an intimate class where again, similar to that leadership track with the PNC now Deloitte seminar, we were able to really just focus conversations around that and talk to many leaders, whether they're entrepreneurs or they're executives. And we were able to talk to ourselves, which is a smaller group of folks and do a lot of hands on things. So that was really awesome. I had tons of great professors, list goes on. I already shouted out Moses Ling because of the amount of effort he puts into the students that he works with and coordinating that study abroad program is just tremendous service to us. The older I get, the more I really, really appreciate it. And then I have high school teachers that had a huge impact on me. I talked about Mister Ed, Mister Edmundson. He was a huge impact. I had BJ Fiola, she, man, the best of the best. I will say I think she's the best math teacher out there. She, she's in it to win it. And she taught AP calc. And you even got a sense of calc two by the time you got in college because just prepared you so well. So there's tons of folks that I look back on, high school and college, that just really excelled at the job. But I think the common thread there is like, they loved what they did. It wasn't always glamorous, but they really did. They were in it to be good at what they do and it showed excellent.
[01:03:33] Speaker A: Now, Brad, as we're wrapping up our time, what is a final piece of advice that you wanted to leave for students to day? Like, you can't finish doing this video or if you're listening to the audio version, this audio recording without sharing this one thing.
[01:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I've spewed out a lot of what I would think is advice, right. But take everything with a grain of salt. And that goes for not just me, but for everybody taking what you could hear. Nothing is gospel. We all are just simply speaking from our experiences that are all different and unique to us. So take it in and try to find the truth in it. That might work for you, but also understand that there might be a counter opinion out there that has some truth to it too. And you're going to find a balance that works for you. Find the sweet spot there. But if I was going to give you. More tangible advice here. It's what I said earlier and that's find real life experience through an internship or part time work whenever you can. I don't care if you're a freshman. I don't care if you just finish your freshman year. It's much harder to do it then. But be creative with it. Leverage family, leverage friends, leverage local opportunities. Show up in person that not a lot of students do and see how far that could get you.
[01:04:50] Speaker A: I feel like I know the answer to this question, but Brad, if a scholar wanted to reach out to you and continue this conversation after they're done watching or listening, what's the best way to get a hold of you? LinkedIn, I guessed correctly.
Now, the hardest question that you were going to get this week, if you were a flavor of Berkey creamier ice cream, Brad, which would you be? And as a scholar alum, most importantly, why would you be that flavor?
[01:05:21] Speaker B: This is such a hard one. Shout out to peachy patina. And I love how it's still around. I am peachy Paterno because I like to think I'm peachy sometimes, but not always.
That's the low hanging fruit there. But the Paternos.
Yep.
But the paternal side, which we all know has some controversy behind it, too. But it still remains and there's still a beautiful legacy behind it to, and so not that encapsulates me, but it's something I could appreciate.
So pizza Paterno is my answer and final answer.
[01:06:00] Speaker A: So good selection.
Brad, thank you so much for joining us here and sharing your insights and scholars watching or listening. Thank you for joining us. Before I let you have the last word, Brad, if you're watching, please make sure that you subscribe. Like the video, leave us a comment. And if you're engaging with the audio version, make sure that you subscribe. Follow whatever your app of choice calls it and leave us a rating. And with that, thank you so much for engaging with us. And Brad, I'm going to let you have the final word here on following the gong.
[01:06:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you very much. Sean, you're awesome scholars. This is such a great resource. Take advantage of it. I don't care if you're listening to me on times two or times three, just listen to every other word I say. Right? It's just, this is a great opportunity and I know there's been countless incredible alumni that have been on this, so it's an honor to be partaked in that.
